https://solidgold.co.za Make Sense of the Mess of Leadership. Today’s leaders are facing unprecedented challenges. It’s a messy, complex world that requires a different approach and mindset to get things done. This is where you'll find conversations on how leaders in complex organizations navigate and make sense of the mess they find themselves in. Management en Sun, 08 Jun 2025 10:52:53 +0200 Wed, 25 Mar 2026 10:00:00 +0200 30 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss iono.fm 2.5.2.0 Solid Gold Podcasts #BeHeard 6a80dbfd-7677-5e69-927b-72ea3a69756a no Daniel Atlin podcast Yearly feeds@iono.fm (Feed Manager) https://cdn.iono.fm/files/p1036/logo_9368_20251015_093155_1400.jpeg https://solidgold.co.za Make Sense of the Mess of Leadership. Solid Gold Podcasts #BeHeard episodic Solid Gold Podcasts #BeHeard info@solidgold.co.za false CA https://iono.fm/e/1659821 https://iono.fm/e/1659821
In this episode of Messy, Daniel Atlin is joined by Sara Hurley, former Chief Dental Officer for England, a leader whose career spans frontline clinical care, military service, and senior government leadership. Few have operated as consistently at the intersection of individual care, institutional complexity, and public policy.

Sara offers a deeply reflective account of leadership in the mess.
Drawing on her experience during COVID, she describes what it feels like to make decisions when there are no good options — only trade-offs. In these moments, she argues, leadership is not about projecting certainty, but about holding uncertainty on behalf of others, while maintaining trust, clarity, and integrity.

The conversation moves fluidly between the personal and the systemic:
• The shift from authority to trust as the foundation of leadership
• The emotional labour of carrying responsibility in complex systems
• The challenge of leading in environments where outcomes are delayed, diffuse, and often invisible
• The importance of stewardship — leaving systems better than you found them, even if the impact unfolds long after you’ve left

Sara also makes a compelling case for public service as one of the last places where fairness can be intentionally designed into systems at scale — an idea that feels increasingly urgent in a time of institutional mistrust.

At its core, this episode is about sensemaking: how leaders navigate ambiguity internally, while shaping systems externally.

It’s a conversation about leadership in the real world: messy, human, and deeply consequential.

If you like this episode please write a review and share it with a friend. Sara Hurley's LinkedIn · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn]]> Management Wed, 25 Mar 2026 10:00:00 +0200 0 0 Putting the Mouth Back into the Body Politic | Sara Hurley 0 0 Daniel Atlin full 56:28 Messy with Daniel Atlin https://iono.fm/e/1654406 https://iono.fm/e/1654406
What if the real problem with higher education isn’t funding, technology, or rankings, but the model itself?

In this episode, Daniel Atlin speaks with Tim Blackman, former Vice-Chancellor and President of the Open University, about whether the dominant university model is simply out of sync with modern life.

While most universities still organise learning around a single intensive period in early adulthood, Tim argues that the future lies in lifelong learning, shorter credentials, and education woven throughout people’s working lives. Drawing on his experience leading one of the largest and most distinctive universities in the UK, he reflects on the challenge of changing institutions that are structurally designed to protect the status quo.

But this conversation is also deeply personal.

While in his role leading the Open University, Tim was diagnosed with stage four prostate cancer. The experience forced a profound pause, prompting him to reflect on legacy, responsibility, and a simple but powerful question: What kind of world do I want to leave my grandchildren?

That moment sharpened his focus on the larger purpose of higher education. In his recent paper for the Higher Education Policy Institute, Tim argues that universities should orient themselves around a guiding mission: helping to build a sustainable economy: environmentally, socially, and financially.

The discussion ranges from institutional leadership and lifelong learning to the challenge of misinformation in an increasingly fragmented knowledge landscape.

Above all, it’s a conversation about purpose and the reminder that it is never too late to rethink your work, your impact, and the difference you want to make. In a messy world, Tim reminds us that leadership isn’t just about managing institutions - it’s about deciding what really matters with the time we have. Connect with Tim on LinkedIn · The HEPI paper · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn]]> Management Wed, 11 Mar 2026 12:00:00 +0200 0 0 Is the University Model Broken? | Tim Blackman 0 0 Daniel Atlin full 51:03 Messy with Daniel Atlin https://iono.fm/e/1652143 https://iono.fm/e/1652143
There’s no guest. It’s just me, Daniel Atlin, answering the question I ask every leader who comes on Messy: to riff off the Kierkegaard quote “Life must be lived forwards, but can only be understood backwards."

I look back at the moments that shaped my curiosity about leadership, complexity, and what I now call “the mess.” I talk about growing up between cultures and religions, about realising I was gay in the 1980s, about feeling different and discovering that everyone carries a backstory you can’t see.

After senior roles across government, cooperative organisations, and higher education, I kept noticing the same pattern: smart people, important missions, and good intentions. And… stalled initiatives, quiet failures, and exhausted leaders.

Why is leadership in mission-driven organisations so difficult?

That question led me to study leadership more formally at Oxford and HEC Paris and to interview 25 university leader across four countries. What I discovered surprised me.

Leaders who navigated complexity most effectively weren’t the ones with perfect strategies but the ones who could make sense of politics, competing narratives, incomplete data, and their own emotional reactions.
They were practicing two forms of sensemaking at the same time:
1. Personal sensemaking: regulating emotion, building resilience, understanding how your nervous system affects the organisation.
2. Organisational sensemaking: exploring the terrain, shaping narrative, improvising when plans collide with reality, and adapting collaboratively.
When those two disconnect, leadership falters.

When they align, something powerful happens.

This episode explains what I’ve learned so far, and why naming complexity is oddly liberating.

If you’re wrestling with leadership in uncertain times, this episode and the series is for you. Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn]]> Management Wed, 04 Mar 2026 12:00:00 +0200 0 0 Making Sense of Making Sense | Why the mess matters 0 0 Daniel Atlin full 8:47 Messy with Daniel Atlin https://iono.fm/e/1649340 https://iono.fm/e/1649340
In this episode of Messy, Daniel Atlin sits down with global facilitator and systems practitioner Adam Kahane to explore what it really means to collaborate when agreement feels impossible.

They explore collaboration across deep divides, the courage to see our own part in the problem, and how change often starts in the smallest crack in a hardened system.

Drawing from his newly revised second edition of "Collaborating with the Enemy", Adam challenges the romantic idea that collaboration is always the right answer. Instead, he offers a more grounded framework: collaboration is one option among four, alongside forcing, adapting, and exiting. The key question is “When, and under what conditions, is collaboration the most viable path?”

The conversation explores several core ideas:
• "Enemy-fying": Adam’s invented word for the habit of labeling others as enemies simply because we disagree with them. In polarized systems, this reflex deepens fragmentation and limits our options.

• The Three Stretches of Collaboration:
1. Embrace conflict as well as connection
2. Experiment your way forward
3. Recognise your role in the game

• Power, Love, and Justice: Drawing on Martin Luther King Jr. and Paul Tillich, Adam frames social change as a tension between the drive to realize oneself (power), the drive to unify the separated (love), and the structures that balance the two (justice).

• Failure as Teacher: Adam speaks candidly about mistakes in both professional and personal contexts, arguing that experimentation, not certainty, is the only way forward in complex systems.

One of the key take aways for those interested in “Messy” leadership is that collaboration begins not with technique, but with introspection: Who am I in this system? How am I contributing to the very dynamics I’m frustrated by?

If you like this episode, share it with a friend. And buy Adam's book! Link to Adam's book: Collaborating with the Enemy · Reos Partners Website · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn]]> Management Wed, 25 Feb 2026 10:00:00 +0200 0 0 Should you Collaborate with the Enemy? | Adam Kahane 0 0 Daniel Atlin full 51:27 Messy with Daniel Atlin https://iono.fm/e/1644092 https://iono.fm/e/1644092
What does it mean to lead a university when trust in public institutions is eroding and the rules keep changing?

In this episode of Messy, I speak with Iain Martin, President and Vice-Chancellor of Deakin University, about navigating leadership in the thick of complexity. From global rankings and political scrutiny to AI, massification, and polarisation, the conversation surfaces the often unseen pressures shaping modern universities.

The “dance floor and balcony” metaphor comes from the adaptive leadership work of Ron Heifetz and Marty Linsky. It captures the leadership challenge of staying grounded in day-to-day realities while also stepping back to see system-level patterns.

Iain reflects on his leadership journey across three Commonwealth systems. He shares how curiosity, narrative, and sensemaking (rather than rigid planning) have guided his approach. Central to the discussion is the idea of social license: who grants it, how easily it can be lost, and why rebuilding it requires leaders to think beyond their own institutions.

Without offering simple solutions, this episode sits with the mess, exploring how leaders balance the dance floor and the balcony, strategy and stewardship, optimism and realism. It underscores why universities still matter as places for difficult conversations in a fractured world.

Key highlights
• Why universities cannot “go it alone” on social license
• The leadership cost of ignoring community expectations
• Universities as complex adaptive systems that require “productive chaos”
• Transparency as a practical trust-building strategy
• The future of assessment and learning in an AI-enabled world
• Why narrative and storytelling are essential leadership tools

I hope you enjoy this conversation. If you do, please write a review and share it with a friend.

Living and leading in the mess is easier with others. Iain Martin's Bio and contact info at Deakin · Iain's discussion & paper on the social license challenge of universities · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn]]> Management Tue, 10 Feb 2026 02:00:00 +0200 0 0 Between the Dance Floor and the Balcony | Iain Martin 0 0 Daniel Atlin full 57:05 Messy with Daniel Atlin https://iono.fm/e/1639843 https://iono.fm/e/1639843
Healthcare is often treated as a hospital story, until you need care at home.

In this episode of Messy, I am joined by John Yip, President & CEO of SE Health, to talk about leading at the intersection of health systems, digital transformation, workforce innovation, and social purpose.

John shares how his early work in the digital economy still echoes today, why home and community care is both essential and misunderstood, and what it takes to build alignment across a complex, distributed organisation operating in Canada’s fragmented provincial landscape. The conversation goes deep on COVID-era leadership: uncertainty, moral pressure, scarcity, and the real-world improvisation required when there is no playbook.

We also explore what “digital transformation” should mean now and how to ensure technology serves care (not the other way around), why safe experimentation matters, and the potential of healthcare data to improve aging and wellbeing. John offers a powerful metaphor from his personal endurance project: “running every street” as a practice of curiosity, resilience, and rewiring your perspective.

Key themes:
• Sensemaking across long arcs of change
• Healthcare as a complex, fragmented ecosystem
• Leadership in distributed, mission-driven systems
• Frontline intimacy and relational care
• Crisis leadership requires improvisation
• Resilience through exploration and “structured chaos”

If leadership sometimes feels like chopping wood, this episode is a reminder: the grind is part of the work and purpose is what helps you stay even-keeled through the mess.

If you like this episode, write a review and share. Leading through the mess is easier with friends and colleagues. SE Health Website · Running magazine Canada article about John running every street · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn]]> Management Wed, 28 Jan 2026 08:00:00 +0200 0 0 Structured Chaos in a Messy System | John Yip 0 0 Daniel Atlin full 56:22 Messy with Daniel Atlin https://iono.fm/e/1635137 https://iono.fm/e/1635137
In June 2025, Meric Gertler completed a 12-year term as President of the University of Toronto.

I had the privilege and good fortune to first meet and work with Meric Gertler in 2007 when he was then the Dean of the Faculty of Arts and Science at the University of Toronto. What stood out most was his curious, thoughtful, and deeply empathetic approach to leadership.

Now, 18 years later, I thoroughly enjoyed our "Messy" conversation. A great deal of it explores how sensemaking is a crucial but often unrecognised function of university presidents, involving engaging with communities in all its definitions, interpreting signals, global trends and events to help their institutions understand their role in addressing societal challenges.

We cover lots more ground in our conversation:
• Why sensemaking is a non-delegable responsibility of senior leaders
• How universities build (or lose) legitimacy and public trust
• What higher education truly owes society
• Universities as engines of access, inclusion, and opportunity
• The challenge of fostering real debate & “disagree welling”
• Leading through the pandemic
• Navigating geopolitical disruption and social media fragmentation
• How U of T became a global leader in sustainability
• Lessons about mobilising change in complex systems
• Practical leadership lessons on delegation, listening, and sustaining yourself in demanding roles

This episode is a powerful reflection on leadership at the boundary: between institutions and society, certainty and ambiguity, responsibility and possibility.

If you’re navigating complexity, questioning institutional purpose, or trying to lead with integrity in uncertain times, this conversation will stay with you.

If you like it, please subscribe and share it with a colleague or friend! University of Toronto · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn]]> Management Thu, 15 Jan 2026 08:00:00 +0200 0 0 Universities at the Boundary | Meric Gertler 0 0 Daniel Atlin full 58:40 Messy with Daniel Atlin https://iono.fm/e/1633186 https://iono.fm/e/1633186
“That trusted network of peers is what keeps leaders standing when the work feels overwhelming.”

In this episode of Messy with Daniel Atlin, I have a conversation with Heather Anderson (CEO) and David Kamau (Chief Program Officer) from Global Health Corps to explore what leadership really looks like when the stakes are high, the data is incomplete, and the path forward isn’t clear.

GHC was built on a core belief that systems don’t have agency, people do. It is focused on building capacity in health systems through fostering leadership competencies and skills in early and mid-career leaders in Africa and the U.S.

David and Heather they unpack how GHC built a “movement” of emerging health leaders across Africa and the U.S. and they do that through tapping into lived and shared experiences, building coaching muscles and a peer community, and harnessing the power of public narrative. They talk candidly about adaptability in crisis, navigating equity and power and preventing burnout in under-resourced systems.

Key themes of this conversation are:
- Leadership is a practice, not a position
- Adaptability is the signature leadership trait
- Networks prevent burnout and isolation accelerates It
- Leadership development is a long game where impact doesn’t always show up immediately or cleanly
- Careers are non-linear and purpose is the best anchor
- Collective leadership is greater than singular heroic leadership

We also talk about the relevance of Marshall Ganz’s work on public narrative and its importance to fostering movements and change.
The work David and Heather do, and the impact of Global Health Corps is impressive.

If you’ve ever wondered how leaders in a global non-profit keep going in the mess, this conversation is your blueprint.

And if you want to support an amazing organisation follow and support GHC. Global Health Corps website and how to support them · Information about Marshal Ganz and his work on Public Narrative · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn]]> Management Thu, 08 Jan 2026 17:00:00 +0200 0 0 Why global health needs collective leadership | Heather Anderson and David Kamau 0 0 Daniel Atlin full 47:56 Messy with Daniel Atlin https://iono.fm/e/1626825 https://iono.fm/e/1626825
In this episode, I speak with Mark Walton, President and CEO of Guelph General Hospital. Together, we explore what leadership looks like inside one of the messiest systems we have: a community hospital under relentless pressure. We'll learn lessons to get through the mess.

Mark traces his health care journey from a 17-year-old ward clerk to finally realising his teenage dream of becoming a hospital CEO and why he cried in the middle of Canadian Tire when he got the call offering him the role of his dreams.

He makes the case that hospitals and universities as a different species of organisation and are really complex adaptive systems that don't act like a traditional business. They are mission-driven, financially constrained, and constantly juggling patient care, staff well-being, community trust, donors, and regulators.

Mark shares what he learned in previous roles, leading Ontario’s COVID-19 response: the importance of naming uncertainty, the long shadow of trauma on health-care workers, and a powerful story of learning a key leadership lesson by stepping into the “cracks between systems” to support migrant farm workers when “no help was coming.”

Along the way, he talks about AI in healthcare, the loneliness of the CEO role, why he leads more like a jazz conductor than a classical maestro, and how music, teaching, and rest help him stay grounded.

It's a candid, hopeful conversation about complexity, values, and leading humans in a system that never sleeps. Guelph General Hospital's website · Mark Walton's LinkedIn profile · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn]]> Management Tue, 09 Dec 2025 06:00:00 +0200 0 0 Leading like a jazz conductor, not a classical maestro | Mark Walton 0 0 Daniel Atlin full 45:13 Messy with Daniel Atlin https://iono.fm/e/1622690 https://iono.fm/e/1622690
Executive Director of Communications

“When leadership goes wrong is when people cling to the baton — and you have to peel their cold, dead hands off it."

In this episode, I sit down with Tania Rhodes-Taylor, Executive Director of Communications and External Affairs at King’s College London, and Chair of the World 100 Reputation Network, to explore what it really takes to lead in a purpose-driven institution in turbulent times.

She shares her origin story, being the first in her family to go to university, her experience and perspective gained from working in multiple industries and countries, and what drives her personally.

Central themes are the importance of reputation, purpose, and stewardship in an age of noise. She says that "reputation is our currency" and that leader should be stewards rather than trying to be main character heroes.

Tania also share about the importance of art in providing a window into society and culture.

Key insights:
💡 Begin every decision with purpose and ask the right questions before deploying solutions.
💡 Treat reputation as currency as it enables the opportunities of tomorrow.
💡 Stay human and connected as leadership in complex institutions demands networks, trust and vulnerability.
💡 Embrace agility and honest institutional conversations about impact, differentiation and identity.
💡 Prioritise stewardship over personal spotlight and glory as your legacy should be an institution ready for the future.

If you enjoyed this episode, please share with a colleague, subscribe to Messy with Daniel Atlin, and leave a review to help others discover the podcast. As ever, getting through the mess is easier with friends and colleagues. Connect with Tania on LinkedIn · Tania's firm: Otus Advisory · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn]]> Management Thu, 27 Nov 2025 06:00:00 +0200 0 0 Reputation, purpose, and the mess of leadership | Tania Rhodes-Taylor 0 0 Daniel Atlin full 41:02 Messy with Daniel Atlin https://iono.fm/e/1617312 https://iono.fm/e/1617312
What does it take to lead after an institutional trauma and how to do this work without making it about you?

Dr. Lynn Wells, President and Vice-Chancellor of Laurentian University, traces a steady path from crisis to renewal: changing a damaging narrative, rebuilding trust, and putting “student-first” at the centre of every hard call.

Drawing on her earlier chapters at other institutions, from reconciliation work at First Nations University of Canada to student-centred leadership at MacEwan and pandemic decision-making at Brock — Lynn shows how process, patience, and humility become anchors when the ground keeps shifting.

Lynn is candid about the human work beneath the headlines: helping a community heal, rejecting doom language, and choosing to lead alongside rather than from the front. She unpacks Laurentian’s tricultural identity, the deep bond with the city of Sudbury, and a powerful metaphor for recovery is the city’s decades-long “regreening,” a science-led restoration that mirrors the university’s rebuild.

Along the way Lynn addresses why good governance beats quick fixes, how to keep purpose intact under political and financial pressure, and the disciplines that keep leaders steady: clear boundaries, exercise, and grace for human fallibility.

This conversation is a grounded reflection on hope, discipline, and the long game of rebuilding step by step: one honest process, one student-first decision, and one reframed story at a time. About Laurentian University · Regreening Sudbury story · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn]]> Management Wed, 12 Nov 2025 08:00:00 +0200 0 0 Changing the narrative - regreening a community | Lynn Wells 0 0 Daniel Atlin full 50:51 Messy with Daniel Atlin https://iono.fm/e/1611568 https://iono.fm/e/1611568
This “Messy” conversation is a bit of a departure from previous episodes as I talk to a bank executive in the Middle East who also works with NGOs and charities.

Daniel Sharaiha grew up and lives in Jordan with one foot in business and the other in the NGO world. That tension, he says, keeps him humble: his head and heart never quite fit neatly into either sector, and that’s exactly why he sees complexity and the mess of leadership clearly.

From welcoming millions of refugees in a water-scarce country to championing women’s participation in the workforce, Daniel frames leadership as service rooted in empathy, justice, and hope. He argues that empathy isn’t “soft” but rather it’s a strategic requirement that fuels organisations. His empathy stems from his identity as being an outsider, which provides a unique vantage point. He views influence and trust as the essential commodity for leadership in any organisation.

In a world where “the unusual is now the usual,” Daniel leans on humour, improvisation, and resilience. He believes that we are in a world that requires generalists, and the ability to cross-train and build complementary skills the way a runner swims to become a better runner. He’s candid about failures (including a teenage hair-tonic misadventure that left him bald) and why leaders must bridge what seems as polar opposites: head and heart, profit and purpose, certainty and curiosity.

Underpinning Daniel’s leadership is “hope”, and a desire to make the world a better place: building tables (sometimes literally) where people can gather, argue, laugh, and keep going together.

Key lessons:
• Empathy as an edge: it strengthens your leadership impact
• Humour lowers defences: laughter opens the “window”
• Improv is survival: change is “business as usual”
• Cross-train your strengths
• Dialogue over monologue: making meaning together Daniel Sharaiha's LinkedIn profile · Daniel Sharaiha's Convocation speech at HEC Paris · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn]]> Management Wed, 29 Oct 2025 05:00:00 +0200 0 0 A foot in two different worlds | Daniel Sharaiha 0 0 Daniel Atlin full 33:30 Messy with Daniel Atlin https://iono.fm/e/1607884 https://iono.fm/e/1607884
In a messy world, leadership doesn’t come with a roadmap — it comes with questions, courage, and relentless purpose.

In this rich and reflective conversation, Dr. Diana Beech, inaugural Director of the Finsbury Institute at City St George’s, University of London, explores her unconventional career path across academia, government, and policy and what it teaches about leading in complex, purpose-driven organisations.
Her story is one of adaptability, curiosity, and moral purpose, offering a grounded view of what leadership really looks like in the “mess” of public life and higher education.

Our conversation touches on:
• Her winding journey from academia to policy and back, taking a combination of serendipity, risk-taking, drive and hard work
• The challenge of building something new, the Finsbury Institute, from the ground up
• Why universities are struggling not just financially, but in public legitimacy
• Lessons from failure, resilience, and self-belief and recognizing there is no shame in failing and the need to share our failure stories too.
• Her guiding leadership principle: “Lead with purpose, not position”

This conversation is for anyone trying to lead in messy systems — especially in higher education, government, or public service.

She also shares her appreciation of an opportunity to talk about the mess of leadership and making sense of complex institutions. The Finsbury Institute at City St. Georges, University of London · Dr. Diana Beech on LinkedIn · Link to the HEPI report: Unboxing Higher Education · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn]]> Management Wed, 15 Oct 2025 15:11:00 +0200 0 0 Lead with purpose, not position | Dr Diana Beech 0 0 Daniel Atlin full 33:34 Messy with Daniel Atlin https://iono.fm/e/1604630 https://iono.fm/e/1604630
What does it really mean to lead with authenticity? And how does healing your own wounds shape the way you show up as a leader?

In this powerful episode of MESSY, host Daniel Atlin sits down with Dr. Benoit-Antoine Bacon, President and Vice Chancellor of the University of British Columbia.

Dr. Bacon’s story and journey is anything but ordinary. He opens up about his unexpected rise from teaching psychology at Bishop’s University to leading one of the top universities in the world.

Along the way, he has faced and overcome deep personal challenges, including a traumatic childhood, years of substance use, and the difficult journey toward recovery. He shares how his healing has not only transformed his life, but also his leadership.

What makes this conversation so compelling is Dr. Bacon’s honesty. He speaks candidly about fear, shame, and the hidden “family ghosts” that shape us, and contrasts the exhausting “path of control and fear” with the liberating “path of compassion and love.” Drawing from Hindu, Buddhist, and Christian wisdom, he reminds us that the true work of leadership is not just about strategy, budgets, or outcomes, it’s about cultivating inner peace and leading from a place of respect, compassion, and authenticity.

His message is clear: “The first responsibility of a leader is to heal themselves.”

This episode is for anyone navigating leadership, change, or personal growth. If you’ve ever wondered how to balance ambition with wellbeing, or how to show up more authentically in your own life, you won’t want to miss this conversation. Link to Benoit-Antoine Bacon at UBC · Link to DJA Sensemaking and a text of the full podcast · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn]]> Management Tue, 07 Oct 2025 00:00:00 +0200 0 0 Leading Through Healing | Dr. Benoit-Antoine Bacon 0 0 Daniel Atlin full 34:48 Messy with Daniel Atlin https://iono.fm/e/1601694 https://iono.fm/e/1601694
Tim McTiernan is Irish-Canadian and has extensive experience in social purpose organisations from governments (Ontario, Yukon, Ireland) and post-secondary institutions (University of Toronto, Canadore College, Ontario Tech).

In this Messy with Daniel Atlin podcast, I speak with Tim as he shares his life journey from growing up in Ireland with a Catholic father and Protestant mother to his career across various leadership roles in Canada. Tim reflects on being an "outsider" in various contexts and how this shaped his approach to leadership.

Tim provides insights into mastering stakeholder engagement and multi-party negotiations. He emphasises the importance of listening and collaboration, particularly when addressing complex issues with First Nations and other stakeholders.

He also emphasises the importance of embracing roles fully even when in acting positions, learning by observing before acting, and finding ways to collaborate across institutional boundaries despite policy constraints. His experiences serve as invaluable lessons for those looking to thrive in challenging environments.

Tim advises leaders to quickly understand current operational constraints, identify areas of flexibility, and look for creative solutions. He emphasises the need to "find the carriers of a vision and put them on pedestals where they can enable, support, and mentor people who can execute the visions."
He acknowledges that transitions won't be easy and may be "hurtful to personnel and budgetarily challenging, but the status quo can't stand."

He uses a story from his lifeguard days about the importance of looking for patterns and distortions in water - a metaphor for what leaders and their teams face in uncertain times. Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn]]> Management Tue, 30 Sep 2025 00:00:00 +0200 0 0 Tap into an outsider mindset | Tim McTiernan 0 0 Daniel Atlin full 47:24 Messy with Daniel Atlin https://iono.fm/e/1600589 https://iono.fm/e/1600589
Sheldon Levy is one of the most recognisable names in Canadian Post-Secondary having worked in senior leadership roles at the University of Toronto, York University, UOIT (now Ontario Tech) and President at Sheridan College, Ryerson University (now Toronto Metropolitan University) and the private University: University Canada West. He also served as Deputy Minister of Training Colleges and Universities in the Ontario Government and as an advisor to the Canadian Minister of International Trade.

In this podcast, Sheldon's maverick and entrepreneurial spirit shines brightly. He talks about the President as a risk taker unlike any other role at a complex institution.

Levy explains the challenges of leading universities, including resistance to change, risk aversion, and the pressure to conform to a single model of excellence. He addresses current issues in higher education such as financial constraints, the international student situation, and the need for innovation. Levy shares his success story with creating the Digital Media Zone (DMZ) at Ryerson (now TMU), emphasising the importance of trusting students and breaking institutional rules to foster innovation.

Throughout the conversation, he advocates for allowing institutions to experiment and take risks, trusting students more, and focusing on solving societal problems rather than just maintaining the status quo.

He observes that both universities and government have become extremely risk-averse because they aren't allowed to make errors, which prevents innovation.

As parting advice, Sheldon advises institutions to focus on one or two things that will make them better and to align themselves with societal needs rather than solely blaming government for challenges.

And to be bold. Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn]]> Management Wed, 24 Sep 2025 18:55:00 +0200 0 0 No Risk, No Reward - Innovators Needed | Sheldon Levy 0 0 Daniel Atlin full 46:33 Messy with Daniel Atlin https://iono.fm/e/1598607 https://iono.fm/e/1598607
Dr. Julia Christensen Hughes makes sense of her journey in higher education leadership, her insights on organisational change, and her experiences at the University of Guelph and Yorkville University.

Julia shares her early disappointments as an undergraduate student, which fuelled her passion for improving higher education.

She discusses her focus on purpose and aligning organisational behaviour and leadership with espoused values, drawing from her MBA and PhD studies. She talks about the precarious nature of innovation in public universities which seems to want to always revert back to the status quo.

Julia shares insight from her tenure as Dean of the Lang School of Business and Economics at the University of Guelph, where she emphasises sustainability and ethical leadership. Julia highlights the importance of external endorsements and data-driven storytelling in building reputation and attracting significant donations, such as the transformational gift by Kim and Stu Lang which named the School. She also shares her approach to change management, focusing on invention, improvisation, storytelling, and adaptation.

Transitioning to her current role at Yorkville University, Julia discusses the challenges and opportunities in private higher education, particularly in serving online graduate students. She contrasts the agility of Yorkville with the systemic issues hindering public universities, such as financial deficits and resistance to change.

The interview concludes with Julia's advice for aspiring leaders in higher education and her hopes for the future of universities as learning organisations. Yorkville University · Gordon S. Lang School of Business and Economics at the University of Guelph · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn]]> Management Thu, 18 Sep 2025 09:00:00 +0200 0 0 Powered by Passion and Purpose | Dr. Julia Christensen Hughes 0 0 Daniel Atlin full 38:55 Messy with Daniel Atlin https://iono.fm/e/1596051 https://iono.fm/e/1596051
In this episode, Dr. Goel dives into the essence of genuine leadership, keeping people at the centre, and illuminating why effective leaders are crucial for steering long-term strategic vision. He shares why he introduced an innovative long-term vision at the University of Waterloo - known as "Waterloo at 100," preparing the university for its centenary in 2057 rather than relying on a conventional five-year plan.

Dr. Goel also tackles the transformative role of artificial intelligence in higher education. He envisions a future where AI revolutionises teaching, learning, and research, with a return to personalised educational models. He makes a compelling case for the growing importance of humanities and social sciences in a world increasingly dominated by technology.

Throughout this engaging discussion, Dr. Goel emphasises the power of diverse perspectives, the necessity of personal balance, and the need for leaders to be aware of the myriad forces, both internal and external, that shape their organisations. Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn]]> Management Wed, 10 Sep 2025 14:30:00 +0200 0 0 The doctor will see you now | Dr. Vivek Goel on Leadership and AI 0 0 Daniel Atlin full 33:24 Messy with Daniel Atlin https://iono.fm/e/1564110?v=1 https://iono.fm/e/1564110?v=1
I’m Daniel Atlin, an executive coach with over 30 years steering Canada’s universities, co-ops, and government sectors. In Messy, I dive into the chaotic world of purpose-driven leadership—think higher education, healthcare, and NGOs. Join me as I talk with global leaders about navigating stakeholder conflicts, geopolitical shifts, and crises, all while balancing influence over authority. It’s raw, it’s real, and it’s not for the faint of heart.

This is Messy - together we'll make sense of the mess Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn]]> Management Sun, 08 Jun 2025 10:57:00 +0200 0 0 Welcome to Messy - Making Sense of Leadership 0 0 Daniel Atlin full 3:42 Messy with Daniel Atlin